Ep 98: Influence vs. Control with Maggie Reyes

I’m so excited to welcome back the amazing Maggie Reyes to the podcast. If you’re listening to this episode today it comes out, today is Maggie's birthday. I’m so grateful that Maggie was born and that she is joining us once again to share her expertise as a marriage coach.

Today, Maggie and I explore the nuance of influence vs. control. We delve into why we feel the urge to control situations or people, and how the only true control we have is over ourselves.

Exerting control doesn’t benefit you or those around you. It’s hard to let go of control, but my conversation with Maggie will show you how influence is a less oppressive approach when you have the tools to reassure yourself that you’ll be okay either way.

Click HERE to get the full show notes.

Transcript

Hey, this is Melissa Parsons, and you are listening to the Your Favorite You Podcast. I'm a certified life coach with an advanced certification in deep dive coaching. The purpose of this podcast is to help brilliant women like you with beautiful brains create the life you've been dreaming of with intentions. My goal is to help you find your favorite version of you by teaching you how to treat yourself as your own best friend.

If this sounds incredible to you and you want practical tips on changing up how you treat yourself, then you're in the right place. Just so you know, I'm a huge fan of using all of the words available to me in the English language, so please proceed with caution if young ears are around.

Melissa

Hello everyone! Welcome back to Your Favorite You. I am so honored to have a repeat podcast guest on the pod today. We are here with the one and only Maggie Reyes.

We'll let everybody calm down after their applause and their excitement and delight. 

Maggie doesn't know this, I don't think, but I planned it so that this episode would be released on her birthday, August 13th. So I wanted to take a minute to let the whole world know how grateful I am that you were born. And if it wasn't for you and the fact that you love me and that you embody love and you want to bring more love into the world - We did not plan this for Maggie to be wearing her love T-shirt today, but it is very apropos - I don't think that John and I would have the incredible relationship that we do at this time. I don't think that we would have the relationship that we do with our boys right now, and I probably wouldn't even be a life coach right now.

So I just wanted Maggie to hear straight from me and for all of you to listen in as I tell her how much her being born has made this world a better place. And how much of a ripple effect her marriage coaching has had on the world at large.

So happy birthday, my sweet friend and coach, Maggie.

Maggie

So this is the “Make Maggie cry” episode.

Melissa

You're welcome. I'm crying too. I'm crying too.

Maggie

I'm gonna share something really personal that I've never talked about before, but this is what we're doing, apparently. So I never talk about my mom or so much my dad sort of publicly. And for some reason, hearing what you said… I have a challenging relationship with my mom and there was a very difficult time when she sent me an e-mail and she said “You should be grateful that I didn't have an abortion,” when she found out that she was pregnant. And it's very difficult to hear that from the person who just brought you into the world.

And I just feel so much emotion right now. So thank you for those kind words, and it is the honor of my life to get to help people love differently and love more deeply and experience the power of healing and the power of love and presence and compassion and all the things you talk about every week on this show.

And I just want to share for everybody: We all have our tough seasons. We all have our things we have to overcome the mountains that we climb. And one of the things and another difficult season with my mom on my birthday, she sent me a text that said, how dare I teach people about love? How dare I do that? And that, again, was not easy to hear from that person.

And for some reason, just hearing your words were like, well, I'm glad I dared.

Melissa

Thank goodness you dared and continue to dare.

Maggie

And so sometimes the people closest to us, you know, may love us the best they can. May have their own wounds and traumas and mountains that they maybe haven't climbed in the same way that you have for everyone listening.

And I just want to say go where the love is. Go where the love is. 

This is gonna be so on brand and such a weird thing to veer off into, but I love Hallmark sappy movies. I'm 100% into the Hallmark mysteries, the Hallmark romances. I know that I teach, like, anti-patriarchal relationships and that you invent the marriage that works for you. And I'm staunchly in that camp and I love sappy romances. Anyway, it's just these are the dualities that I present to you.

Melissa

Yes, that we can hold.

Maggie

We can hold them both. And some of them are nonsense and stupid and some of them are just delightful and cozy and we can just live with that reality.

So anyway, there is an actor named Kristoffer Polaha. He is one of the Hallmark… He's made a million of these Hallmark movies. And I was reading an article that asked him, you know, as a serious actor in Hollywood, it's like, “Why do you keep doing these Hallmark movies?”

And he was like, “You know what? Hallmark treats me really well. They flew me to Fiji to film a movie. They've given me so many opportunities to feed my family and, you know, you know, provide for my kids,” and whatever. And he's like, “I just decided at one point that I would just go where the love is.”

And for some reason, that thought of like, for anyone listening and just going through a rough time, go where the love is. Where are you well treated? Where are you honored? Where are you respected? Where are you cherished? Just go there.

Melissa

I was gonna say, if there isn't a place like you have the power to create that for yourself.

Maggie

Yeah, it's like being here on this podcast with us. It's like we don't know you, but we just love the human in you, right? We don't know you, but you can know that there are people on earth that are just also so glad that you're alive and listening to us and that we get to live our purpose and our mission in life because you're here, even though we don't know you, right? We respectfully love you already, right?

Melissa

Exactly. That’s what I always tell my people, I'm like, try to get me not to love you. Like, it's gonna be really hard. Like, you're gonna have to really try.

Maggie

So anyway, we started with some deep stuff.

Melissa

Some deep stuff. Yeah. And I mean, we could do a whole podcast about duality, right? Like being able to hold two things. It's interesting because, you know, as you were talking about how it was very hard to hear from your mom that she said that you should be grateful that she had an abortion. Sorry, that she didn't have one. Thank goodness.

And we can also hold the fact that we believe that every woman in America has the right to do with her own body what she wants to do.

Maggie

100%. Let's dig in. 100% have these thoughts that people do not understand. And I, being a liberated, progressive woman, did not understand this until… Thank God I have so many friends who are doctors who really clarified for me that the surface level way that we discuss something like abortion in the media and our culture does not begin to scratch the surface of the fact that it is a life saving medical procedure that is often necessary for a variety of reasons. Mind you, the reasons don't matter. The reasons don't matter because your body can do whatever you want with it, but it's a life saving medical procedure and the idea that you would deny access, like it's like if someone was rolled into the emergency room and needed like, I don't know, a heart transplant or something and they were like, no, we don't… The government is going to decide whether you get one or not. The doctor's not going to decide. The patient's not going to decide. The people who actually know how to treat a human body and understand anatomy and understand all these things, right? None of those people are going to decide. Like some lawyers in some room somewhere are going to decide. It just boggles the mind.

Melissa

And I think most people don't know because of the way that abortion is talked about in the mainstream media and, you know, by people who don't want it to be a choice for people, that most abortion happens to people who are actively wanting to have a child.

Maggie

Yeah, I didn't realize that either.

Melissa

Yeah. So anyway, that is not what we're talking about today, but we probably could do a whole damn podcast about that.

Maggie

Yeah. And it's kind of like today we're just being real human. Like we have a topic and we're going to discuss it and all that. But we're also like, we carry all these things with us and we're just bringing you all the things we carry.

If you're listening to us, you probably carry a lot too. And we just want to be that voice that says it's OK to carry a lot. You could still become your favorite you.

Melissa

Yeah. And the duality of you can carry a lot and you can put a lot of your shit down if you need to.

Maggie

Oh, we're gonna swear today. We're swearing everybody.

Melissa

Oh, surprise, surprise. We already have the disclaimer at the very beginning of the podcast, so it's safe.

Maggie

I'm kind of excited. I don't swear very often, but I swear occasionally.

Melissa

Around Melissa, because Melissa has influence over you.

Maggie

We'll see what happens.

Melissa

OK, so I asked Maggie to come on and help me explain some of the nuance that there is in what we teach about relationships.

And as I've shared multiple times in the podcast and in my social media posts and my emails and really all of the content that I provide for you, I am what I have affectionately coined a control enthusiast.

And prior to coaching, I thought that in order for me to feel safe, I needed to be in control of me and I needed to be in control of everyone that I loved.

So I thought that if they would only do what I wanted them to do, say what I wanted them to say, if they were quiet when I wanted them to be quiet, then we would all be OK.

And as you can imagine, living with three other men in my life, John, Jack and Owen. This did not go over well the vast majority of the time, and it turns out after coaching that I really can only control me. And prior to coaching, I wasn't even really doing that too well.

So Maggie and I both trained at several different places, and we have one place in common that we trained that uses a tool called the model to explain human behavior. And basically, the model says that each person's thoughts creates their own feelings, which leads to their actions, and those actions or inactions perhaps ultimately lead to that person's results.

So that would be all well and good if we were all living as individuals and never had to interact with or be in relationship with or rely on anyone else. And when I first learned this prior to working with Maggie, John and I struggled because when we would interact, I would think something along the lines of, “Well, my model and my life are hunky dory over here. And John, if you have a problem with me, it must be your thoughts and feelings that are the problem.”

And then Maggie introduced me to the idea of control, which is what I was trying not to do, versus having influence. And it's interesting because my husband is very, very good at reading my aura and I think that comes from some of his wounds, if I'm being honest. And I think he would say the same.

And so whenever he would say “What is wrong?” and I didn't want to get into it, I would say nothing. I would pretend and lie and apparently my vibe is pretty loud and he has the superpower and it would get us into all this trouble because I'd be like, “There's no problem.” And he'd be like, “Yes, there is.” And you know, me denying that reality actually made him feel even worse and it wasn't doing me any favors either.

So can you briefly, or maybe not so briefly, explain the difference that you see, Maggie, between influence and control and how you've helped people in relationships kind of see the nuance and the difference?

Maggie

Absolutely. And I don't want to skip over the part where you were, like, lying to feel safe.

Melissa

Oh yeah, yeah

Maggie

Like you just, you're just like, I'm gonna just drop this little bomb and then we're just gonna skip right over it. So we just want to notice, right? Like we all do this too, right? We all he's like, what's wrong? And you're like, oh, I don't want to bother him with it. Or maybe he's not the one to help me. Or maybe, oh, I don't want to burden him. Like from a place of total love and care, even for the other person, sometimes we're like, we're fine, right? As opposed to, no, we're obviously unsettled or not well or whatever.

And so we do that. All of us do that. When we have awareness around it, it doesn't even mean we stop doing that. It just means we do it more intentionally, right?

Or we say something like, I'm really upset, but I'm not ready to talk about it, right? We can be more truthful and authentic in the moment.

But I just wanted to just acknowledge, like we all do that. It's part of some safety for us, but also sometimes it's coming from this really generous, loving place of not wanting to burden the people we love.

And that kind of ties into some of our episode of, we live in the United States where we're recording this. It's a Western industrialized society that is hyper individualized. The narrative of the US is the pull yourself up from your bootstraps. 

Unseen is by yourself, right? Like not in a community, not with other people and not with support. Supposedly, supposedly it's by yourself. But the truth is we all need each other to survive and whenever I say that.

And people are like, no, “But I've done all these things by myself.” It's like, actually, if you work in an office or a hospital or you work in a place, there's other humans. There's people who give you opportunities, people that give you support. There's who, you know, wherever you bought your coffee beans from, unless you made those beans in your backyard, right? Someone helped us get out of bed today.

And so I just want to acknowledge, like, that hyper-individualism is part of what contributes to this dynamic between influence and control. Does that make sense to you?

Melissa

It totally does. And I want to add another layer onto it. For my brainy people, our left brain is very much individual: “I can do it by myself, trying to put things into categories, figure out where I fit in,” in the pecking order. And most of us who are high-functioning or hyper-functioning type A, you know, successful people have had to use our left brain a lot to get where we are in the world. And we often forget our right brain, which is all about how do I connect to all these other people? How do I, like, where can I see the connections instead of this hyper individualistic lens that we tend to look at things through?

Maggie

Yeah, so good, so good.

OK, so in order to explain influence and control, I'm gonna go back to a couple of the things that you said and then we're gonna, like, segue into that cause you mentioned using, like, a cognitive behavioral model, like your thoughts affect your feelings, affect your actions, affect your results.

That's an incredibly powerful framework to think through life through. It helps us, you know, make decisions and how it's like a great filter to use in so many ways. And again, when we fall into the narrative of hyper individualism, then we're like, well, I'm just going to be in my cognitive awareness and everybody else's cognitive awareness is like, “Whatever…”

Melissa

“Doesn't matter.”

Maggie

“Who cares?” And it's like, wait, so when you were saying that, I was like and mirror neurons are real and coregulation is real and collaboration is real. It's so perfect that we said we get to do a whole episode about duality. This is the episode. Here's the duality.

It's like, yes, you are walking around with your own narratives, with your own stories about the world that either empower you or disempower you. And other people don't have to share your stories in order for you to succeed or for you to fail or for you to feel good or for you to feel bad.

That's true. And it's also true that being in loving presence with another human helps soften whatever stories you have, helps you have mental, emotional, and physical strength to deal with whatever you need to deal with.

I read this years ago. I'm sure we can Google it if someone's really curious, but there was this research that holding the hand of someone you love had the same effect on the body as an analgesic, as taking like an aspirin. And so that is also real, right?

So human touch, human presence is incredibly healing and we hold the duality that we both need it and we don't need it. It both helps and it also isn't necessary.

And that's part of this influence versus control because it's part of what we find is where can we detach? We care about your story, but we're not gonna be beholden to your story. We care about your thoughts, but we're not gonna define ourselves by them.

I wanna pause there. What are your thoughts about that?

Melissa

Yeah, I'm just going back to the human touch being an analgesic, my sweet husband, one of our love languages is to send each other reels of things that are meaningful to us. And he sent me a reel the other day of he's one of the top actors right now. I don't know his name. You may have seen the real Maggie, but he basically is very anxious when he goes out to do public engagements.

Maggie

Pedro Pascal and I think her name was Victoria Kirby and they're the Fantastic Four. It's in Marvel. I know 100%. I'm so excited. Love superheroes. Yes. Deep relationship thinker. Also a fan girl. Duality!

Melissa

So John sent it to me and said like this, like “This is what I need and this is why I reach out to you like we're when we're out in social situations,” or “This is why like when I come home from work, like I love it when you pause what you're doing and come and love on me and pay some attention to me,” and that type of thing and yeah, I mean just like everything that you're saying is like tracking 100% over here at the Parsons household.

Maggie

Oh, this is so fun. This is so fun. OK, so now the question of the day, influence and control. So why are we talking about all these things?

So as Melissa mentioned when we're high achieving, used to having people report to us, maybe we're department heads, we're leaders in a variety of ways. Even if like, I don't know, even when I was a volunteer that they would always like, like volun-told me into like being the head of the committee. I was never just in the committee. I was always like… and I'm figuring that out.

So, when we're used to being in those roles, we do have a lot of control. We tell people what to do and they go do it and things work out cause we have great ideas. We're really smart. We're like when people do the things we tell them to do, things go well.

Melissa

Yeah, it turns out, turns out.

Maggie

But then we bring that same energy home and we try to control people who aren't in our control, whether it's your kids, whether it's your partner, whether it's a family member, we try to… It's almost like we're used to… In our brain, right? Our brain goes on automatic pilot in order to process all the thousands of pieces of information that we see in a day. Our brain will just be like, “Oh control, it works. I'm going to do it over here.”

And this distinction between influence and control becomes really important if you're not feeling great in your relationship. If you're feeling exhausted, resented or overwhelmed, it's very often there's an over functioning element of trying to just control everything that then becomes overwhelming and becomes the thing that if you don't figure it out. It destroys your health. It destroys the health of the relationship. It just has so many bad, bad side effects.

Melissa

Yeah.

Maggie

So I think we're pretty clear on what control looks like, what it is. So what is the relationship between influence and control?

So influence is how do I stack the decks to make it more likely that something that I desire or something that I think is useful or good is going to happen? It is a healthy, loving detachment from the actual outcome.

When I am focused on control, I want the thing done the way I want it done. And if it's not done the way that I want it done, then I freak the fuck out.

Melissa

I love it.

Maggie

Appropriate usage.

Melissa

Perfect. Good job. Good job, Maggie.

Maggie

So what happens is, but influence requires us when we engage with the idea of like, how do I influence the situation without controlling, trying to control the situation? It requires us to trust that we will be OK either way.

Sometimes that feels really hard, especially if you've grown up in a lot of situations where you weren't OK either way.

Like, it's real. That's a real fear. It's not like your imagination, right? It's like it's a real fear that we have to work through, which is why we're both coaches and teach all this stuff and are doing this episode. It's like we acknowledge the difficulty of believing I will be OK either way when you've had big chapters and seasons of your life where you haven't been OK.

Melissa

Yeah.

Maggie

So even the coping mechanism of becoming a controlling person, that coping mechanism was the right thing to do during eras of your life where that was necessary for you to survive.

I want to pause there. What are your thoughts?

Melissa

My thoughts are Med school and residency and early attending hood.

Maggie

Yeah, so true. And I, you know, I coach so many like doctors, engineers and people that are involved in things where control is actually critical. Like one of my clients was an engineer and I was like, yeah, if you measure that bridge wrong, if you get those dimensions off, if the thing can't sustain the pounds, people will be in literal danger, actual literal danger.

If you give the dosage wrong, you know, maybe you're trying to stop a heart attack and you induce a heart attack. Like there are times when control, measuring, being precise, being exact is the right thing to do and is necessary. And if we spend 15 hours of our day in that, we come home and then we're like, “No, the steak sauce has to be this brand. Why did you buy the other brand?” 

Melissa

This is so funny. The ketchup needs to be Heinz, and the peanut butter needs to be Jif. Like, don't fuck with me.

John is going to be laughing so hard on his way to work on your birthday.

Maggie

Are we buying different brands just for fun?

Melissa

No, we are not. It's not fun, Maggie.

Maggie

You will be OK either way.

Melissa

I have survived a vacation with Skippy, believe it or not.

Maggie

Mine needs to be organic, unsalted peanuts only.

Melissa

Oh wow, nice.

Maggie

And sometimes I'm in the mood for crunchy and sometimes I'm in the mood for smooth. So we have to have both in stock at all times.

Melissa

I love it. I'm glad I'm not alone in this craziness.

Maggie

OK, so influence and control. So we have to have the thought, “I'm gonna be OK either way.”

And actually you brought up something really powerful that I think is so important for all of us to notice: And we don't have to climb every mountain. We don't have to be in loving, freaking detachment about everything. We could want our peanut butter and we're allowed to want what we want the way we want it. That's again, that duality. We can hold two things. Kind of like, how much does it matter? How much do I want it to matter? You know what? I want my peanut butter the way that I want it. I'm OK being attached to that decision. I don't have to let go of that one.

Melissa

Yeah.

Maggie

And I think sometimes we do personal development and we learn some of these tools. We're like, oh, I will now be like a Buddha who lives on a mountain, except I will have to go through living in a big city and working through all the stresses of my current situation. But I will pretend that I'm a Buddha that lives on a mountain, and I will pretend that I don't care about the peanut butter. But I actually do care about the peanut butter.

Do you see that, like, that duality there?

Melissa

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Maggie

So we're telling you right now, permission to want whatever the heck you want. Only use this to help yourself. Like, only use this to support you. Never turn it against yourself, right?

Melissa

Yeah, I know. I've had so many, not so many, but recently my clients have, you know, listened to the podcast and, you know, one of the things that I was talking about she tried to use it against herself and I was like, oh no, no, this is not the purpose of the podcast.

Like if you listen to the podcast and you want to come and get coaching on it, like let's help you make sense of why that was triggering for you and why you thought you needed to use it against yourself. And like, let's see the other 15 ways that you can also look at this without making you bad or wrong or, like, using it to hurt yourself.

Maggie

So good, so important. OK, so influence.

So here's how I like to explain influence is imagine that I'm… So everyone listening, imagine I invited you to my house and I wanted you to feel warmly welcomed. And like, I'm so excited and delighted that you're here. And I decided that I was gonna bake some chocolate chip cookies, the instant ones. Don't get too excited. Things are not from scratch. They're like, I cut something with a knife and I turn the oven on. Good. But I wanted you to feel warm and welcome. And then when you walk in, it's like that aroma, right? Those delicious Pillsbury chocolate chip cookies. We have a branch for that too. The one in the blue box, but the one in the yellow box.

Anyway, so you come in and I have done this with all the love in my heart to welcome you. But that was the same brand your grandmother used to make. And instead of being excited and delighted and welcome, maybe you burst into tears and maybe you remember a tender moment and maybe it brings you sadness.

Notice that I have no actual control. All I can do is influence your experience to the best of my ability with loving intention in my heart, how it lands for you is actually outside of my control.

And if I see you crying, then I can offer you a hug or a comfort, or like ask you what would feel comforting right now, or how I could support you, right?

But I can't actually control it. Control is such an illusion. Like even the things we think we can control, we really don't. We think we can. We do our best to when we can, but we're it's it's just we can only do what's in our power to do.

And so now what happens with influence?

So I can stack the decks towards the probability of something happening. So if my husband gets home and I run towards him like a little puppy and I hug him and he laughs and he says ‘When wives attack.” I will chuckle. I am stacking the decks towards him feeling valued and welcomed and admired and prioritized, right? 

But can I control that he actually feels that way? No. He might feel frustrated and tired and overwhelmed, and I've had a hard day, and who knows what else, right?

I just wanna really give illustrative examples of how I can do something that makes an outcome more likely. And it's a coaching question. We ask, like, how can I make this result inevitable?

It's like, OK, I can do a bunch of things that would make it highly likely that something is going to happen. That's using my influence in its best manner, right?

Now, when I say I want to control something, it's almost like you can see a very direct line between control and oppression. Versus influence is much more connected to freedom and liberation. In influence there's consent.

It's “What would you like?” Maybe if I'm planning your visit to my home, I say, “Hey, what are your favorite cookies? Hey, what would feel nice? Do you like tea or do you like coffee?”

There's an element of consent and invitation, and it isn't, “I am going to take you to a five course meal, whether you actually are allergic to shellfish or not,” right? Deal with it, right? That's control. OK. What are your thoughts? Tell me everything.

Melissa

I love it. And I think that, you know, speaking to the way that people take us, like take us in and that type of thing, we don't have really any control over that. Like some days John would be delighted if I ran up and, you know, was greeting him. Other days he's like still on the phone and dealing with a colleague as he walks in and that type of thing. And it would not delight him if I ran up and, you know, tried to maul him like I do.

So I think again, just like the nuance and the being willing to experiment and being willing to be vulnerable and ask like “What would delight you, honey?” or, you know, him or the boys. And then being willing also to be vulnerable enough to ask for “What would delight me?”

Maggie

Yes.

Melissa

And not be attached to the outcome. It's hard to do.

Maggie

Yes. Very hard. It's why we work with coaches. It's very hard. It's very hard for a variety of reasons and a variety of contexts to open up and say “I would love this. This would be amazing.”

Melissa

Yeah, because you're leaving it open to the possibility that it won't happen. And then, you know, you get to decide. And I know a lot of your coaching of people in marriage is, you know, we get to either get closer to the person because we're willing to be vulnerable or we get really clear on what is available in this relationship to me, what is not, if I'm willing to be vulnerable and that type of thing.

And I think one of the things that you always say is we want to know this information, like this is good information to have…

Maggie

Either way.

Melissa

Yeah, either way, yeah.

Maggie

I have a scandalous, I don't know if it's scandalous, but you tell me what you think.

I recently was coaching someone similar along these lines, and I was like, you know what we need to do is we need to kill the hope. We need to stop operating from hope that things are gonna be different. We need to be with where things are. And the only way to do that is to ask for the things you want and then see, is your partner available to give them to you or not?

And it'll be devastating if they're not, but that's data we need to have to make powerful decisions. And sometimes we're we tend to be… I say “We” anyone listening to this podcast, that's you, I'm talking to you. 

We tend to be generous and kind and loving and give people the benefit of the doubt and give people so many opportunities. And I'm like, you know, as a coach, I also believe in second chances and I literally teach do overs for a living.

You know, I believe in that. But there's a line. Sometimes we have crossed our line and we need to check.

Melissa

Yeah, it's so interesting when you came in the last time to my group and taught about soul-centered communication, which is one of Maggie's, you know, Forte, like Piece de resistance teachings that we can link in the show notes, one of your podcasts about it. But one of my clients is going through a divorce with her ex-husband and she kept being surprised that he wasn't able to meet really any of her wishes or her desires and that he was just doing all this, you know, I don't even know what to call it, crazy, weird stuff and she kept being surprised.

And, you know, we coached her in that call and you said, like, let's make the agreement that we're not going to be surprised by his behavior anymore.

Maggie

Yeah.

Melissa

And you know, she obviously is divorcing him. She has no control over his behavior, and spoiler alert, she never did. But that's just that coaching that she received from you and then she's received it several times, you know, since from me because we need coaching and reminders of the things that are hard for us to remember and execute. And you know, she went through that coaching call thinking and saying to you, yes, I'm going to make this commitment that I'm not going to be surprised. And she was very excited about going out and taking that action in the world.

And then when she had to go out and take the action, it turns out it was hard, which is why having the guidance and support and the, you know, every week ability to speak to me about it was like, “Oh no, we made that agreement that we weren't going to be surprised, remember?” And it's just so powerful.

You know, I don't know if this I'm way off on a tangent here, but I think that it's it's a good example of like being willing to recognize that the person that you really, really, really, really want to be able to meet your desires and to delight you and that type of thing: When they can't, it's OK to say.

Maggie

Yeah, it's OK to let go of that. I actually think it's an illustration of control because when we're surprised, it's like we think we can control that. We're still hanging on to the idea, like, no, I can.

And I can tell you with my mom, right? Cause that's as no one will be surprised based on the beginning of the episode that with my mom, it's like I had to teach myself not to be surprised. I'm like, why am I surprised? It hurt me so much. Some of the things that she said hurt me so deeply and like, but wait, why? Does this surprise me?

And if you met my mom today, she would tell you that she's so proud of me, that she's so happy for me. Like I, you know, I want to paint a picture of a fully wounded yet loving human, right? Where she would just tell you, “Oh my God, you know, what my daughter's done has been amazing. And that's also true, like, the duality, right? The duality is true. But I had to really train myself to like, not be surprised. And the reason I was surprised was like, if I twist myself into a pretzel, this person will approve of my behavior or this person will give me the validation that I'm seeking. And we still believe that we can control that.

So I do think that it is related. It's like, no, I can influence as best as I can. And this person, with their worldview, with their wounds, with their traumas, with their dreams, with their hopes, is going to have whatever thoughts that they have. And then I can decide how I want to relate to the person and their thoughts.

Melissa

Yeah, I love it. Thank you for being so masterful at figuring out how that had to do with control, cause it felt important to say. And yeah, I mean, that's exactly it, right?

Maggie

You're welcome.

Melissa

So funny. So funny.

I want to talk just real quickly and I'm being like called to bring this up and we're, you know, listening to our intuition these days. So my body's telling me to bring it up.

Coaching that you gave me recently because, like, one of my big mantras in my relationship has been stay in your own lane.

Maggie

So important. If she ever got a tattoo, that would be the one.

Melissa

It's not happening. So anyway, but we were talking about John's been struggling with his health somewhat lately and I have. I don't want to stay in my own lane about this. Like I want to be a… I call myself a rabid bulldog about this. And there are some things where you have said like permission granted. Yeah, like it's OK to really fight for this because you're wanting him to be alive and to be around and all of that kind of good stuff.

So could you kind of give us your thoughts behind why you gave that coaching? Cause I told John about it and he was appreciative, actually. Yeah, he wasn't like, this is ridiculous. Like, ask Maggie for all of your money back.

Maggie

Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to mention for everyone listening that the whole coaching was what if we trusted him? The first part of the coaching was how about we trust him?

Melissa

Yes, that's true. I forgot that little detail.

Maggie

And you know, how about we trust him for the care he wants, for the support he wants, or like, how about we ask him what feels supportive to him?

John, it's for you, but you now have it recorded.

That was the first part of the coaching. And then the other part of the coaching was, and of course you love him and you care and you're going to feel unsettled if he's unwell and you get to be human with him too, right? That was the whole coaching. There were two parts.

Melissa

The duality.

Maggie

And we can hold both. We can hold that we deeply want to honor his agency, his autonomy. His wisdom, right? His own body's wisdom, his own genius. And we also hold, OK, like, I deeply love this human and I want him to be OK. And I deeply want to control every single thing he does about the thing that is freaking me out, right? We can hold both of those and we just put that in the room. We just don't ignore it. We're just like, hey, listen, I really want to make all your appointments and I want to do all. Can I just take over your schedule? Do you need an assistant? You need an assistant. I can do that, right?

Like we have that urge. OK, don't, don't do it. Just acknowledge that you have it.

And then when you talk to the person, you say this is, this is where this urge is coming from. It's because I love you more than anything else on this earth. Notice that he was like, oh, I can receive that. I still don't want you to make all my appointments, but this is where it's coming from. That was the logic behind it.

Melissa

Thank you.

And I saw the logic when it was on, you know, two Mondays ago or whatever. But I was like, OK, wait, how does this fit in? And I knew, I knew again that you would be able to bring it right to the fore.

Maggie

And I will tell you, which I told Melissa that day, but I'll tell everyone who's listening because I teach this stuff, but I also have to listen to myself because when I listen to myself, good things happen.

So I like, full disclosure, I have decided that you're a bulldog, I'm a terrier with a bone.

And I have told my husband very lovingly there are certain things. And when it comes to health or something like that, like… I don't care - People have like honey do lists. I said I don't care about any of that stuff. I'm like, if it never gets done, I can move into a trailer. It's fine, you know, give me a nice mattress, a little Wi-Fi and that's like, we're good. Something to eat.

You know what I mean? My desires are very simple. But when it comes to something like his health or something like that, I just have told him, I don't care if you're annoyed with me. I don't care. He’s annoyed. It's fine. I will fall on this hill. This is the hill that I will die on.

And so now we get to laugh about it. We get to just have fun with it. You know, it's and and I get to be me and he gets to be him. So he gets to say no, right?

He jokes that I am the unstoppable force and he is the immovable wall. And this is the perfect description truly of who we are as humans. And so he gets to react however he wants to my concerns or my loving suggestions, right? But I also get to share them.

And because we add humor and we add awareness and we add love, it doesn't feel oppressive to receive them. If I was trying to control him in a really oppressive way, it would feel very different. The reason it feels different, if we go back to what you were saying about your thoughts and your feelings, is the thought and feeling it's coming from is very different when I'm like, I do want you to feel safe because I love you and I do want you to take care of yourself or whatever it is. And it's coming from a place of love and deep concern. But I will be OK either way.

So you can feel that it's like I'm not hanging my whole how I'm going to be on what he does or doesn't do. So there's an element where it can breathe.

Melissa

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think I want to ask you one more thing.

Maggie

Great.

Melissa

So, you know, a lot of times when our partner is upset or frustrated, angry, not sure what the next, you know, right thing to do is that type of thing. And they are talking to us about it, not really asking for our help, but more like venting and that type of thing. One of the things that I used to struggle with - and I've gotten better, I'm still a work in progress - is I would think that that was an invitation for me to come up with all of my ideas of how he could solve for the frustration, solve for the anger, solve for the problem, you know, that type of thing.

Whereas I have learned over the years that really in those instances he doesn't want my help or my tips for, like, how to make things better. He really just wants my presence and a hug and like my trust in him, like you just said, like that you're gonna figure this out, right?

And it's the same with the kids too. Like so many times, you know, before coaching, I would try to fix things for them, you know, and help them and that type of thing. When really they didn't want or need, frankly, my help. Like they were doing just fine without me. And they also wanted me to sit there and either commiserate or just say, yeah, that's that's hard, that sucks. I see where you're coming from, that type of thing. So I think so many of us are socialized to think that we need to fix things for other people. And I think it does come from this need for control type of thing, when really the most loving thing that we can do for us and for them is to just be a loving presence or to give them a hug or to co-regulate, have neurons, you know, that type of thing with them.

Maggie

No notes.

Melissa

Amazing. That's my favorite. Oh, my goodness, Maggie. OK, I think this is a good place to end.

Maggie

Love it.

Melissa

Tell my people if they don't already know how they can work with you, what you're offering right now, all those good things.

Maggie

Oh my gosh, how fun is that? So you can go to maggiereyes.com. You can see everything that's going on there. And in 2024, if you're listening to this on my birthday, I have private coaching offerings. I do six months in depth where we talk every week it's amazing and Melissa is a product of this amazing situation. And I also have, I don't know how long I'll have this, this offer, you know, life. We don't know the ups and downs, the twists and turns we'll take. But I have this amazing offer called the Power of Eight, which is 8 sessions. And we either do them in a Sprint or on call. So they expire in six months and you can just use them whenever you want them. And if you're interested in that, the best thing to do is just email me at maggie@maggiereyes.com and just ask me about it.

If you're listening to this in like 2027, you know, good luck, just go to the website. Whatever I'm offering is on there now.

I always think about the people who are listening like in the present and “Oh yeah, I'm one in the future is gonna be like you said that.” Like, I'm sorry. It's been seven years. Life has changed.

Melissa

Circumstances have changed and so have I. Hashtag Serena Hicks.

Maggie

She's one of our coach friends. She's amazing. So yes, that's the best way is to just go to the website. And then if you love podcasts, the Marriage Life Coach podcast. It's a great resource. We talk about all these things, just like you do on Your Favorite You.

And I really believe that inputs are really important. We get a lot of negative inputs from our cultural narratives, from the media, from all the different places that aren't thoughtful and intentional about building you up and empowering you to live the life that you actually want. So you can become your favorite you.

And one of the things they give for homework and coaching is like for you to check: What are your inputs? What are you listening to? What are you reading? And is that helping you get more of what you want or not?

Melissa

Yes. Speaking to influence, like the things that you're putting your time into definitely influence who you become.

Maggie

And I'll tell you, I used to read the police reports story in our little local paper. We have this gazette where they put the police reports and my husband is like, you are - This is joking, right? - But he's like, you are forbidden from reading the police reports. They freak you out every time. Why are you reading that?

Yeah, I don't do that anymore, right? So like, what are your inputs? Get inputs that help you become your favorite you. Whether it's my podcast, whether it's books that you read, things that you do. Melissa has so many good recommendations.

What's a recent book that you read that you were just inspired by?

Melissa

Right now, I'm actually in the middle of reading a book called Financial Feminist by Tori Dunlap.

Maggie

So glad I asked.

Melissa

I'm only one chapter in, so I can't give a full review. But the first chapter is basically, you know, the way that you deal with money and finances and that type of thing is influenced based on how you grew up and like your first money memories and you know what your parents taught you about money. So I'm like, so far I'm like cosigned. So I'm reading that right now. And then, of course, I'm reading all kinds of romance novels that I couldn't even tell you the title of because they're on my Kindle and I never see the front cover.

Maggie

Right. Who was this? Who said this? I love it. So good. So, yes. So there we go. That's how you can find me. The Marriage Life Good Podcast, maggiereyes.com.

Melissa

OK, Maggie, thank you so much. Happy, happy birthday. I love you, lady.

Maggie

Thank you.

Melissa

Bye, everyone. Come back next week. Next week… Oh, yeah, next week's a great episode. Come back next week. Bye!

I am once again enrolling women into my amazing group coaching program. This group is for you since you're listening to my podcast.

You will get amazing coaching, plus the beauty of a community of other women who are interested in thriving as much as they can and who will also want you to succeed at becoming your favorite you.

There is undeniable benefit from watching another woman being coached on an issue you have had in the past or one that you're currently having. Our brains just see so much more possibility when we are not the ones in the hot seat.

Maybe you are struggling with wanting your spouse to behave in a way that is different from how they are currently acting. Maybe you think you are failing as a mom because your child is struggling with friendships. Maybe you're worried that the people you work with are going to finally figure out that you don't know as much as they think you do. Maybe you can't figure out how to find even five minutes for yourself in a day. Maybe you're feeling inadequate because you're comparing your life to what you see others sharing online. Maybe you're feeling guilty because you already have so much and yet you still want more. Maybe you feel like you're alone in these struggles.

When you join our group, you will have the ability to come every week and share yourself vulnerably and watch others share vulnerably. We know that shame only grows in silence and in hiding. And the power of being held by other incredible humans who are often caught in some of the same traps of thinking that you are is undeniable.

Please go right now to melissaparsonscoaching.com/group, schedule a consult with me so I can hear how I can help you, and we can decide together if you are a great fit to join the group.

We start on August 21st. Join us. You will not regret learning the skills and tools that I provide you in the group. And you certainly won't regret having my support and guidance as you become a favorite version of yourself.